It's time for round two of the
Persona 3 vs
Persona 4 throwndown! Yesterday I went over the story elements, so if you want to know what's up with that be sure and read the breakdown
here. Today we are moving on from that and instead analyzing the characters in hopefully not as many words as day one (but who knows? I sure don't!). Who will win? Who will lose? Which of these amazing JRPGs will come out on top? I don't even know; I haven't written it all yet! So I'm just as excited as you are!
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| Excite...ment? |
As before,
HERE IS YOUR BIG FAT SPOILER WARNING! Again, I won't go over any big details (
Persona 3's ending, the culprit in
Persona 4), but there will be minor hints and spoilers throughout. If that stuff bothers you, go play the games already, because they're great and have been out since forever.
Lastly, due to the nature of the games, this section has something a little different: I break
Persona 3 down between
Persona 3/FES and
Persona 3 Portable. Not a big deal (any points I allocate to
P3P will be given to
P3 in the end), but I felt that distinction was necessary considering how different the new character in
P3P is with regard to social links and the like.
Let's get this show on the road!
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| You, after reading this. Maybe. I make no promises. |
Part 2: The Characters
Main Character
As a preface to this whole thing: yes, I'm aware the main character in all three of these games is a silent protagonist. I'm also aware that they've made anime adaptations of both games (as well as given Yu from
Persona 4 a personality in
Persona 4 Arena), but I don't care about any of that crap. I'm basing this analysis on both character responses (your only real way to shape the character) as well as their overall significance and impact on the story. Got it? Great!
Your main man in
Persona 3 is a blue haired, emo looking dude with headphones who keeps his hands in his pockets 90% of the time. He comes off as a quieter person, with most of his story-related responses being relatively lukewarm in nature in either the affirmative or negative. He does have a few opportunities to give a little backtalk (particularly to Junpei), but mostly the guy feels like he's along for the ride.
It's important to note he's elected leader not for any particular leadership quality, but more because out of the initial options he was the best choice (and he was the only one who could easily use the Evoker to summon his Persona without hesitation). It's odd that when more skilled leaders enter the equation (Mitsuru) they keep him on as leader, but he wouldn't be a main character if they didn't, right?
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| "My favorite band is Death Cab for Cutie. So what?" |
The protag has a rather lengthy backstory that ties into the rest of the characters and the overarching plot. In fact, his connections with Nyx and Pharos are considerably stronger than the rest of the team, making him almost fall into that "prophesied one" niche of main characters. It is nice to see that he has a history that ties him into the plot, but unfortunately that's about all the character development they seem to have done for this guy. In terms of a personality, he's almost offensively bland, and while I know these types of characters are supposed to be blank slates to allow the player to project onto them, the guy was so generic he was incredibly hard for me to identify with, much less project onto.
It's not bad, by any means, I'm just seriously confused as to what all the girls I dated saw in him. Must've been into kids with long, blue bangs.
P3P added an entirely new protagonist, a female main character. While the story (including her backstory) remained the same as the male's, it's worth nothing that the female main character is considerably more likable. First off, her responses have some genuine snark to them (should you choose to go that way). She feels much more opinionated in her social links, as well, and rather than feeling distant from everybody she feels more like part of the team. She has a good blend of both sarcastic strength and genuine empathy that makes her extremely likable as well as highly competent.
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| She still has creepy demon eyes, though. |
In a purely hypothetical example, if somebody said something to get a rise out of
P3's male protag, the responses would probably be along the lines of ignoring them, giving a half-hearted retort, or just telling them to buzz off. The female protag, however, could play it off much more suavely, or turn it right around in their faces with a quip of her own. She's funny, witty, but still somber when needs be. She feels much more like a leader than the male protag, so recruiting her to run the team makes a lot more sense. She's also much easier to identify with. I felt more like I was projecting into
Persona 3 Portable more with the female main character than the male character, despite being male myself.
She even has the bonus of having her backstory be the same, and thus tie in well to the remainder of the story. In every sense, she's the best of both worlds.
The main character in
Persona 4 is supposed to be 16 or 17, but for some reason has gray hair. What is up with that, grandpa?
That aside, the protag of
P4 exudes leadership qualities, and in spades. His responses are often level-headed but he is also willing to make jokes at other characters' expenses. He never really lowers himself to engage in trivial debates or arguments, but he also isn't afraid to joke around and tease the other characters.
The story in
Persona 4 required your character to be a leader, and the main character delivers on all fronts. But aside from that, he just seems like a fun guy to be around. I get why girls would like him; he's empathetic and actually cares about people, but does so from a levelheaded distance. He doesn't get overly emotionally invested but instead serves as a rock for both his teammates and those he social links with. The guy's just that solid friend you have around, not necessarily because he's exceptional at any one thing, but because you know he'll be on your side when it matters most.
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| He's bringing sexy back. |
This makes him very relateable, easy to project into, and an excellent main character for what the game needs. The only real downside I found was his lack of a backstory. While giving him a family to relate to was a smart touch (the Dojimas), nothing about his past is ever really brought up or mentioned. The guy is a literal blank slate as far as the story is concerned, which means he was just in the right place at the right time for this story. The other complaint I have is sometimes I felt his retorts could be a little better, but he makes up for it with his massive amount of confidence. You bet my main character took the cross-dressing competition by storm and without hesitation, because he was a confident dude who didn't care what nobody thought about him.
Considering all the positives I heaped onto
Persona 4's protag this might come as a surprise, but I really felt
Persona 3 Portable's female protagonist knocks it out of the park.
P3P was made after
Persona 4 and I think it shows; they took all the positives from the original protagonist (his backstory, ties with the story and other characters) and just twieked the personality to be much more likeable. She literally is the best of both worlds here: funny, intelligent, a solid leader, and with a strong connection to the story at hand. While I really like the
Persona 4's main character, he felt a little too much like a shell when compared to
Persona 3 Portable's. Your mileage may vary, but in this throwdown
P3P wins.
Also, her fashion sense is great.
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| Make the right choice. |
Party Members
In
Persona 3, your squad mainly consists of fellow SEES members, some of which knew each other before you join the game, and others you recruit along the way. While all the characters are interesting, my biggest beef with them is that they seem to hardly interact outside of either the dorm at night or fighting during the Dark Hour. You do run in to Junpi and Yukari around school, but interactions are usually kept at a minimum. A few standout moments ("Operation Babe Hunt" and the school trip) show the characters interacting in a more casual environment, but overall most communication happens around business, which frankly just isn't super interesting. I blame Mitsuru, because she takes everything way too seriously.
The social links are also fairly hit or miss. Both Yukari and Mitsuru have a lot of past to dig up, which results in some interesting backstories. Fuuka's entire social link is kind of a waste, to be honest. Instead of focusing on something personal like her being bullied, it's all about getting her to cook better. That's it. Come on!
(Note: Despite this, Fuuka is still my favorite girl from
P3. No, I don't know why. Just letting all you Fuuka fans know I'm on your side, I swear!)
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| These guys. |
The rest of the party members can't even be social linked (at least in
P3/FES), which is a huge bummer. Akihiko, Shinji, and Ken all feel like they have a lot of story to say, but you never get to hear it. It does drop some hints throughout, but being unable to spend time with them in depth kind of sucks.
Out of the whole crew, Junpei feels like he has the most change over the course of the story, mostly due to his relationship with Hot Topic Girl. While Yukari and Mitsuru have their moments, most are driven by the plot, not by the characters, which is great for the story but bad for developing them as individuals.
Don't get me wrong: I think all the characters are a lot of fun, but I didn't feel particularly connected with any of them. Akihiko and Shinji may be my bros, but that doesn't mean I understand them as much as I'd like. And that's kind of a shame.
I felt this spinoff deserved a mention because, should you pick a female protag, you can actually social link everybody in your party (including the dog. Koro's social link: best social link). Probably the best part about this is that
Shinji's social link is exemplary because his scenes usually end up involving the other party members along with him. This adds a bunch of much needed group dynamic to the SEES members, making them seem more unified and friendly to each other, which was lacking in
P3/FES. I can't praise the Shinji link enough for doing this; it completely vamps up the entire SEES dynamic in the best way possible: it makes them feel like genuine friends that do stuff together.
And while Akihiko and Ken might not have been quite as fleshed out as I'd hoped they'd be, being able to finally understand where they are coming from does a lot to help me like them more. Junpei too, though I'd never admit it, because I don't like Junpei. Seriously, he's that friend you have to hang out with because he really likes you, but you don't really like him back and kind of think he's annoying. But burning through his social link, I couldn't help but start to like this guy. I feel you, man. I feel you.
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| Yeah, no. |
So overall, I'm glad they added these new links. Characters feel better unified, you understand them better (both Yukiko and Mitsuru have different lines as well for the female route, helping you get to know them even more), and the SEES team is strengthened by this variation.
When it comes right down to it,
Persona 4 feels like the whole game is about its core team. Youske, Chie, Yukiko, Kanji, Naoto, Rise, and Teddie are not only extremely likeable, but interact better than most fictional groups I've seen. This is partially due to the fact that they all have fantastic chemistry before the game even begins: Chie, Yukiko, and Youske already all know each other, and Kanji and Naoto do somewhat as well. Rise and Teddie are odd ducks out, but Rise is famous (so she's still "known") and Teddie is...well, he's Teddie. He's a riot. Added bonus that he has the whole "fish out of water" scenario working for him as he tries to understand the world outside the TV world.
Persona 4's story is about discovering onesself, which means it has an automatic advantage in terms of developing it's characters. Before a character even joins your party you have to go through a dungeon created by their own mind, as well as help them accept their Shadow (basically the darker, exaggerated version of their repressed thoughts). Because you essentially see their most intimate side, you get a free kickstart into understanding their character, and the rest of the time is spent working from that point. It's almost like cheating when it comes to character development, but you can't argue with what works.
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| These guys. |
Some party members certainly have stronger stories to tell than others. Youske's entire arch seems to hinge around accepting both the death of his crush and the fact that he's working at essentially the Wal-Mart of Inaba, putting small businesses out of work. I like the guy, but his link isn't particularly compelling. Chie is struggling to find out what exactly it means to protect people and be strong while coping with her perceived lack of femininity, which sounds interesting but frankly doesn't dig quite as deep as I felt they could take it. Yukiko's problems involve dealing with both the expectations of her family and still wanting to be independent (and learning to cook), while flip-flopping back and forth the entire time. Even if I feel some of the connected party members' stories could have been better developed, I will say this: they all tie into the theme of the game very well. In a game about finding out your darker side, accepting it, and then deciding how to move on, the social links all fit in perfectly. There is also a strange familial underpinning to almost every character's story (including the protag's), but I won't get into that here.
But if all else fails,
Persona 4 has two rather major trump cards: Kanji and Naoto. These two characters (particularly Kanji) might be some of the most complex characters I've seen in a video game. The only character I can think of off the top of my head that might be close would be Kaine from
Nier, but even she didn't go into as much depth as these two. Kanji is kid who is terrified of being perceived as weak, and even more scared of not being accepted. Unfortunately (at least according to him), his hobbies tend to lean towards crafts and other "feminine" past-time (again, at l`east in his own mind), which makes him worried about his masculinity. Kanji overcompensates by playing the tough punk, at the expense of both his reputation and his school studies. When he falls for Naoto, whom he believes is a boy, he starts questioning his sexual orientation as well and struggles to understand what it all means. All this: his desire for acceptance, his belief that he has to "be a man" even though nobody is imposing that upon him (except, one might argue, socitial norms), and his relationship with Naoto is done extremely well. So well, in fact, that I considered writing another entire article about both Kanji and Naoto. But I probably won't, so there.
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| Kanji, mah bro. |
Naoto is equally interesting, though not quite as ambiguous as Kanji. She (told you there'd be spoilers) poses as a man because she wants to live up to her family's reputation as excellent detectives, and fears that society (and the police force) wont' accept her for the genius detective she is because of her sex. While her arch ends up being considerably less ambiguous if you max her social link (there has been discussion as to whether or not Naoto is a transsexual based on her Shadow, but her dialogue pretty clearly ends up stating her desire to be a man was mostly based on expectations of her family, not personal belief that being male was her true gender, but take it as you will), it's still a topic rarely covered in games (if ever; again, Kaine).
The most important part about this (and all the characters) is that whatever a character is struggling with isn't what defines them. It would have been very easy to play Kanji off as some gay joke (which Youske sort of leans towards with his homophobia in the early portions of the game, but even Youske has an arc in that regard), but instead he's just another character and his orientation questions are just a layer of depth on top of him. It's masterfully done, and makes all the characters seem considerably more real. Kanji: you da man. Also you're hilarious.
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| Social links. Totally realistic. |
Lastly, and perhaps the actual biggest plus in
Persona 4's favor, is the tight bond you feel with these characters by the time the game ends. You interact with them frequently, with tons of cutscenes happening just throughout the week, many of which have no bearing on the overarching plot save to show the group hanging out and having zany antics. You find out Chie is actually scared of lightning (who would have thought?) and Naoto can't ski (in
P4G). These characters have such phenomenal chemistry you can't help but love them, so much so that Atlus knew it, adding more scenes in the
Persona 4 Golden remake that, again, have no bearing on the plot but are just entertaining to watch. That, to me, shows the strength of these relationships, when I can watch them go off and do nothing and still be thoroughly entertained.
Based on how much I wrote above, this shouldn't come as a huge surprise, but I'll go out and say it: I love
Persona 4's characters. Like...unfairly so. I like them so much that after I beat
Persona 4 Golden (which was my fourth time through
Persona 4), I wanted to start over and play again just so I could continue to hang out with them. The only other time I've felt this connected to a group of characters in a video game was
Nier, and that one only had to make me like four of them;
P4 has eight (if I count myself). They have such excellent chemistry, boosted by the fact that Atlas put tons of scenes of you hanging out in that game, get tossed into some absurd and hilarious situations, and present such a fantastic group dynamic it's really hard to top it.
I don't think
Persona 3/P3P has a bad party. In fact, I think they do an excellent job in fitting their story roles and making the overarching plot better. But, really, that's the bulk of what they do. They feel more like business associates and less like a group of rag-tag friends. This might be the fault of the age split; in
P4 most of the characters are in the same year in school as you (I suppose Rise, Kanji, and Naoto aren't, but they still hang out with you at school), while in
P3 both Akihiko and Mitsuru are a year older than you and like...never hang out. Also Mitsuru is cold, man. She just kills fun wherever she goes. But I still like you, Mitsuru, just...you could like...I dunno, unwind every now and then.
So yes,
Persona 4's main cast really shines here. They're fun, funny, charming, and above all: hilarious. It makes me wish I had that many friends in real life. :'(
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| Thanks, Marie. |
Side Characters/Social Links
Oh man, this is already going to be dicey to break down, but I'll do the best I can.
As a preface,
Persona 3 was the first
Persona game to introduce the idea of Social Links. So, in a way, it was a trial run at these sort of bite-sized character stories that help strengthen both the character development of the protagonist and create a bunch of memorable side characters.
That being said, while I enjoyed a hefty portion of
Persona 3's Social Links, a lot felt either mediocre (
Yuko,
Mamoru) and others completely just fell flat (
Kenji,
Tonaka [though to be fair, his is funnier in context with
P4]). In most instances, the weaker ones tend to focus less on larger issues and more on simple conflicts. Kenji likes older women, so he thinks he gets one and then finds out he didn't. That's the entire social link. Tonaka is a greedy businessman (granted, he's a
funny one), who doesn't really learn a lesson but by the end does donate some of his money to charity, if for greedy reasons. They just aren't particularly impactful, and the worse ones (again, Kenji, I cannot stand the guy) are boring and obnoxious.
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| Yeah, no. Never. Go away. |
That being said, the highs can be so,
so good.
The Unusual Monk,
Dying Young Man,
Young Girl (at the park), and
Council Treasurer (who looks oddly like my wife...) all have excellent stories. In particular, the Monk and the Dying Young Man spoke to me in ways few games do, with the former overcoming his own preconceived notions about both himself and family, and the latter learning to accept death but make something beautiful out of it before it ended. Which, hey, ties into the theme of this game really well.
The old couple at the bookstore also compliments the theme, with them learning to overcome their son's death both as a means of letting go and moving forward. In fact, a good deal of the social links in
Persona 3 don't end happily; they instead result in the characters discovering something about themselves that allows them to take their troubles in stride, realizing you can't win 'em all, but winning isn't necessarily what matters. Which, again, ties into the theme of the game really well.
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| I'm warning you little girl: depressing things happen to those who know me. |
My only other complaint is that, especially in
3/FES, I often felt the main character was a non-entity in a lot of these stories. With Kenji or Tonaka you feel just along for the ride, as with many others. This ties into the persona of the main character (like...his personality, not the demon he summons from his brain), where he's just kind of a loner, quiet guy, and not necessarily particularly social. It fits the game and the character, but makes him considerably less interesting when interacting with his social links.
This section should technically be shorter, because in
P3P a lot of the extracurricular social links were removed and replace with the (arguably superior) social links within your party. Mostly they just trimmed the fat (Kenji is gone, woo hoo! As is the Gourmet King and the Rival Athlete), but they did add two new ones that are worth noting. A new sports girl is added into the, who has to deal with both the team being a bunch of slackers as well as her love life (which is, to be fair, almost identically gender swapped from the
Daisuke sports social link in
P4). Her's is decent, but what really sets it apart is there are scenes throughout the game of the main character interacting with both her and Rio (a sports club social link in
P3 male protag) which really shows a lot of chemistry between these characters and, oddly enough, the males on the sports team. It's a stronger bond, and I'm glad they put it in.
The other new social link might be one of my absolute favorites out of all of them, and it is atrociously heartwrenching.
Saori, the Librarian/Heath Committee member, a student who is a year older than everyone because of being transferred between schools so much. Quiet and reserved but dying to be socially accepted, her desperation gets her dragged into a relationship scandal that ends up completely ruining her school life. This is one of the few social links that (like the Dying Young Man) absolutely does not end on a happy note. Yes, she learns to accept herself or whatever, but I was actually upset at how things ended up for her. It didn't pull any punches, it didn't even try to sugar coat it. She was a merciless victim of bullying, and the victim lost. There are some really excellent scenes in this one (if only they could have used this storyline for a more prominent character afflicted with bullies, like Fuuka).
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| WHY DOES YOUR STORY HAVE TO BE SO SAD :( |
While the female protag has less social links outside of the core party that
P3 vanilla, I feel she has the best bunch. While a few semi-duds are still there (again, Tonaka, though I still love the guy for being a total sleezeball), the replacements are much better and it just feels like a stronger mix overall. As a bonus, even the repeat ones have been rewritten to better fit her more outgoing personality, which makes her feel more involved in her friends' lives than the original
P3 protag. A strong set, overall.
Persona 4 already swept the last category by a landslide, and I have to say: it really puts up a fight here too. As I mentioned in the
P3 section, that first game felt a bit like practice, with social links being all over the place in terms of quality.
Persona 4, on the other hand, is solid across the board. This mostly has to do with a more unified sense of theme: all the conflicts in the stories are very specifically about encountering a part of yourself that you don't like or is holding you back, learning to recognize it, and then overcome it. The social links blend into the main message of the story very well, and since the formula they're following is basically "How to write a fictional character 101," it makes sense their social link stories work better as character anecdotes.
I actually only recently finally got to see all the social links in
P4 (thanks to the extra month in
P4G...that stupid tutor kid finally got maxed), and there were very few I felt were duds. I may earn some flack here, but I felt nothing for
Yumi in Drama or
Ayana in Music. Yumi in particular came off as grating in her random mood shifts, going from ok to emotionally compromised and back to ok like a flip-flopping politician (maybe she applied to the Yukiko school of 'What am I going to do with my life?' switch-a-roo). I guess it's to be expected that the Drama class would have...well...
drama, but I don't really feel connected with her.
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| Check that baggage at the door, Yumi, I ain't got time for this drama. |
The only other one I felt was a bit hamfisted was
Sayoko (the Nurse). Her switching between flirty and angry was a bit disconnected, and while I figured out it was part of her character, it made the first half of her story and the second half seem extremely disconnected.
That being said, even the ones I initially thought I'd hate still ended up ending strong.
Ai in particular I couldn't stand so much I'd never go out with her, but she ended up having one of the most interesting arcs of all my school friends (though with almost enough drama to give Yumi a run for her money). Even the "lesser" ones like Hisano (Death) had some really good points. Again, following the theme really worked well.
But, again,
Persona 4 has a massive, overshadowing trump card: the Dojimas.
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| ...I may need to reconsider. |
Having you stay with your uncle and younger cousin was a brilliant move in terms of both story (since they both tie into the overarching plot very closely), but also in connecting you with the characters. The familial ties already gives them automatic sympathy (especially Nanako), and the tragedy in their pasts that they both share is enough to fuel two emotionally charged, heartbreaking links. Nanako in particular is so damn well done that you can't help but both love her and feel sorry for her, stuck in such a difficult situation at such a young age. I was having emotions towards this video game character I'd never think I'd have before: worried about her because of her being home all day alone, proud of her for putting on a strong face (perhaps even stronger than her father) despite her mother having passed away, glad that she was both a funny and happy-go-lucky kid despite it all, and deep down wishing I could do more for her even though there was no way (and not just because the game wouldn't let you; because in the narrative there really was little you could do. What were you gonna do, bring her mom back to life?). I just...
hnngggg NANAKO. And it just makes that last kidnapping all the more painful.
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| I'll be your new dad. And brother. And mom. Just please, for the love of god, don't be sad Nanako! I can't take it! |
Ryotaro Dojima is equally complex, if on a different side of the coin. At first I was genuinely annoyed at the guy, always putting his job before his family, no matter how noble he kept preaching it was to me (I'm sorry you are worried about your dead wife, but your
child is alive right here and needs you, dude). However, after burning through his social link, I had a total reversal. He went from being a neglectful parent into a conflicted man who wanted the best for his family but didn't know how to show it. It was clear that his wife had been the emotionally undersatanding one in the family, the soft-spoken, caring parent that knew how to help their daughter. With her gone, Dojima was completely lost, and reacted in the only way he knew how: investing himself in his work with the hope that solving the case would bring peace to Nanako. This is a character with an incredible amount of depth and a good deal of heart besides his prickly exterior. I can't...I just can't even begin to explain how good this guy is, and the fact that he's put into context even better with Nanako's social link only makes it all the better. It's just really, really solid character development.
Honestly, if it had just been Nanako and Dojima,
P4 probably still would have won. I still can't get over how well integrated into the story while still not being part of the main party these guys are. Nanako especially because she has more interaction with your friends, but Dojima as the other half of that puzzle. The two together are not only imperative to the story, they're just straight up interesting and compelling characters, and you can't help but get attached to them. The rest of the social links in
Persona 4 are standout as well, but those two absolutely steal the show.
That isn't to say
Persona 3/Portable falls short. Again, it has some really good highs, but how on earth are you going to beat freaking
Nanako?! You can't. It's impossible. Cause every day is great at your Junes, etc. etc. I mean they gave her a freaking
catchphrase.
P3 just didn't have a chance.
That's it for today! But what are the scores for today's battle?
If we tally up the total from yesterday, we get...
Wait, a tie? Seriously? All that writing and they're
tied?! Ugh, what am I doing with my life...
Well, there's still one chance at a tiebreaker. Next time we'll burn through
Graphics, Gameplay, and
Music for the final throwdown at which of these two games reigns supreme.
Do you have an opinion? Am I completely wrong about everything? Care to discuss character nuances from these two games? By all means,
leave a comment and we'll talk. I love talking about these games, and any and all critiques, comments, or just general nonsense is appreciated. Even weird
Persona fanart. Maybe. If it's good.
