Persona 3 vs Persona 4: Which Game is Better? Part 2: Characters

It's time for round two of the Persona 3 vs Persona 4 throwndown! Yesterday I went over the story elements, so if you want to know what's up with that be sure and read the breakdown here. Today we are moving on from that and instead analyzing the characters in hopefully not as many words as day one (but who knows? I sure don't!). Who will win? Who will lose? Which of these amazing JRPGs will come out on top? I don't even know; I haven't written it all yet! So I'm just as excited as you are!

Excite...ment?

As before, HERE IS YOUR BIG FAT SPOILER WARNING! Again, I won't go over any big details (Persona 3's ending, the culprit in Persona 4), but there will be minor hints and spoilers throughout. If that stuff bothers you, go play the games already, because they're great and have been out since forever.

Lastly, due to the nature of the games, this section has something a little different: I break Persona 3 down between Persona 3/FES and Persona 3 Portable. Not a big deal (any points I allocate to P3P will be given to P3 in the end), but I felt that distinction was necessary considering how different the new character in P3P is with regard to social links and the like.

Let's get this show on the road!

You, after reading this. Maybe. I make no promises. 

Part 2: The Characters

Main Character

As a preface to this whole thing: yes, I'm aware the main character in all three of these games is a silent protagonist. I'm also aware that they've made anime adaptations of both games (as well as given Yu from Persona 4 a personality in Persona 4 Arena), but I don't care about any of that crap. I'm basing this analysis on both character responses (your only real way to shape the character) as well as their overall significance and impact on the story. Got it? Great!

Your main man in Persona 3 is a blue haired, emo looking dude with headphones who keeps his hands in his pockets 90% of the time. He comes off as a quieter person, with most of his story-related responses being relatively lukewarm in nature in either the affirmative or negative. He does have a few opportunities to give a little backtalk (particularly to Junpei), but mostly the guy feels like he's along for the ride.

It's important to note he's elected leader not for any particular leadership quality, but more because out of the initial options he was the best choice (and he was the only one who could easily use the Evoker to summon his Persona without hesitation). It's odd that when more skilled leaders enter the equation (Mitsuru) they keep him on as leader, but he wouldn't be a main character if they didn't, right?

"My favorite band is Death Cab for Cutie. So what?"

The protag has a rather lengthy backstory that ties into the rest of the characters and the overarching plot. In fact, his connections with Nyx and Pharos are considerably stronger than the rest of the team, making him almost fall into that "prophesied one" niche of main characters. It is nice to see that he has a history that ties him into the plot, but unfortunately that's about all the character development they seem to have done for this guy. In terms of a personality, he's almost offensively bland, and while I know these types of characters are supposed to be blank slates to allow the player to project onto them, the guy was so generic he was incredibly hard for me to identify with, much less project onto.

It's not bad, by any means, I'm just seriously confused as to what all the girls I dated saw in him. Must've been into kids with long, blue bangs.

 P3P added an entirely new protagonist, a female main character. While the story (including her backstory) remained the same as the male's, it's worth nothing that the female main character is considerably more likable. First off, her responses have some genuine snark to them (should you choose to go that way). She feels much more opinionated in her social links, as well, and rather than feeling distant from everybody she feels more like part of the team. She has a good blend of both sarcastic strength and genuine empathy that makes her extremely likable as well as highly competent.

She still has creepy demon eyes, though. 

In a purely hypothetical example, if somebody said something to get a rise out of P3's male protag, the responses would probably be along the lines of ignoring them, giving a half-hearted retort, or just telling them to buzz off. The female protag, however, could play it off much more suavely, or turn it right around in their faces with a quip of her own. She's funny, witty, but still somber when needs be. She feels much more like a leader than the male protag, so recruiting her to run the team makes a lot more sense. She's also much easier to identify with. I felt more like I was projecting into Persona 3 Portable more with the female main character than the male character, despite being male myself.

She even has the bonus of having her backstory be the same, and thus tie in well to the remainder of the story. In every sense, she's the best of both worlds.

 The main character in Persona 4 is supposed to be 16 or 17, but for some reason has gray hair. What is up with that, grandpa?

That aside, the protag of P4 exudes leadership qualities, and in spades. His responses are often level-headed but he is also willing to make jokes at other characters' expenses. He never really lowers himself to engage in trivial debates or arguments, but he also isn't afraid to joke around and tease the other characters.

The story in Persona 4 required your character to be a leader, and the main character delivers on all fronts. But aside from that, he just seems like a fun guy to be around. I get why girls would like him; he's empathetic and actually cares about people, but does so from a levelheaded distance. He doesn't get overly emotionally invested but instead serves as a rock for both his teammates and those he social links with. The guy's just that solid friend you have around, not necessarily because he's exceptional at any one thing, but because you know he'll be on your side when it matters most.

He's bringing sexy back. 

This makes him very relateable, easy to project into, and an excellent main character for what the game needs. The only real downside I found was his lack of a backstory. While giving him a family to relate to was a smart touch (the Dojimas), nothing about his past is ever really brought up or mentioned. The guy is a literal blank slate as far as the story is concerned, which means he was just in the right place at the right time for this story. The other complaint I have is sometimes I felt his retorts could be a little better, but he makes up for it with his massive amount of confidence. You bet my main character took the cross-dressing competition by storm and without hesitation, because he was a confident dude who didn't care what nobody thought about him.

Considering all the positives I heaped onto Persona 4's protag this might come as a surprise, but I really felt Persona 3 Portable's female protagonist knocks it out of the park. P3P was made after Persona 4 and I think it shows; they took all the positives from the original protagonist (his backstory, ties with the story and other characters) and just twieked the personality to be much more likeable. She literally is the best of both worlds here: funny, intelligent, a solid leader, and with a strong connection to the story at hand. While I really like the Persona 4's main character, he felt a little too much like a shell when compared to Persona 3 Portable's. Your mileage may vary, but in this throwdown P3P wins.

Also, her fashion sense is great.

Make the right choice. 

Party Members

 In Persona 3, your squad mainly consists of fellow SEES members, some of which knew each other before you join the game, and others you recruit along the way. While all the characters are interesting, my biggest beef with them is that they seem to hardly interact outside of either the dorm at night or fighting during the Dark Hour. You do run in to Junpi and Yukari around school, but interactions are usually kept at a minimum. A few standout moments ("Operation Babe Hunt" and the school trip) show the characters interacting in a more casual environment, but overall most communication happens around business, which frankly just isn't super interesting. I blame Mitsuru, because she takes everything way too seriously.

The social links are also fairly hit or miss. Both Yukari and Mitsuru have a lot of past to dig up, which results in some interesting backstories. Fuuka's entire social link is kind of a waste, to be honest. Instead of focusing on something personal like her being bullied, it's all about getting her to cook better. That's it. Come on!

(Note: Despite this, Fuuka is still my favorite girl from P3. No, I don't know why. Just letting all you Fuuka fans know I'm on your side, I swear!)

These guys. 

The rest of the party members can't even be social linked (at least in P3/FES), which is a huge bummer. Akihiko, Shinji, and Ken all feel like they have a lot of story to say, but you never get to hear it. It does drop some hints throughout, but being unable to spend time with them in depth kind of sucks.

Out of the whole crew, Junpei feels like he has the most change over the course of the story, mostly due to his relationship with Hot Topic Girl. While Yukari and Mitsuru have their moments, most are driven by the plot, not by the characters, which is great for the story but bad for developing them as individuals.

Don't get me wrong: I think all the characters are a lot of fun, but I didn't feel particularly connected with any of them. Akihiko and Shinji may be my bros, but that doesn't mean I understand them as much as I'd like. And that's kind of a shame.

 I felt this spinoff deserved a mention because, should you pick a female protag, you can actually social link everybody in your party (including the dog. Koro's social link: best social link). Probably the best part about this is that Shinji's social link is exemplary because his scenes usually end up involving the other party members along with him. This adds a bunch of much needed group dynamic to the SEES members, making them seem more unified and friendly to each other, which was lacking in P3/FES. I can't praise the Shinji link enough for doing this; it completely vamps up the entire SEES dynamic in the best way possible: it makes them feel like genuine friends that do stuff together.

And while Akihiko and Ken might not have been quite as fleshed out as I'd hoped they'd be, being able to finally understand where they are coming from does a lot to help me like them more. Junpei too, though I'd never admit it, because I don't like Junpei. Seriously, he's that friend you have to hang out with because he really likes you, but you don't really like him back and kind of think he's annoying. But burning through his social link, I couldn't help but start to like this guy. I feel you, man. I feel you.

Yeah, no. 

So overall, I'm glad they added these new links. Characters feel better unified, you understand them better (both Yukiko and Mitsuru have different lines as well for the female route, helping you get to know them even more), and the SEES team is strengthened by this variation.

 When it comes right down to it, Persona 4 feels like the whole game is about its core team. Youske, Chie, Yukiko, Kanji, Naoto, Rise, and Teddie are not only extremely likeable, but interact better than most fictional groups I've seen. This is partially due to the fact that they all have fantastic chemistry before the game even begins: Chie, Yukiko, and Youske already all know each other, and Kanji and Naoto do somewhat as well. Rise and Teddie are odd ducks out, but Rise is famous (so she's still "known") and Teddie is...well, he's Teddie. He's a riot. Added bonus that he has the whole "fish out of water" scenario working for him as he tries to understand the world outside the TV world.

Persona 4's story is about discovering onesself, which means it has an automatic advantage in terms of developing it's characters. Before a character even joins your party you have to go through a dungeon created by their own mind, as well as help them accept their Shadow (basically the darker, exaggerated version of their repressed thoughts). Because you essentially see their most intimate side, you get a free kickstart into understanding their character, and the rest of the time is spent working from that point. It's almost like cheating when it comes to character development, but you can't argue with what works.

These guys. 

Some party members certainly have stronger stories to tell than others. Youske's entire arch seems to hinge around accepting both the death of his crush and the fact that he's working at essentially the Wal-Mart of Inaba, putting small businesses out of work. I like the guy, but his link isn't particularly compelling. Chie is struggling to find out what exactly it means to protect people and be strong while coping with her perceived lack of femininity, which sounds interesting but frankly doesn't dig quite as deep as I felt they could take it. Yukiko's problems involve dealing with both the expectations of her family and still wanting to be independent (and learning to cook), while flip-flopping back and forth the entire time. Even if I feel some of the connected party members' stories could have been better developed, I will say this: they all tie into the theme of the game very well. In a game about finding out your darker side, accepting it, and then deciding how to move on, the social links all fit in perfectly. There is also a strange familial underpinning to almost every character's story (including the protag's), but I won't get into that here.

But if all else fails, Persona 4 has two rather major trump cards: Kanji and Naoto. These two characters (particularly Kanji) might be some of the most complex characters I've seen in a video game. The only character I can think of off the top of my head that might be close would be Kaine from Nier, but even she didn't go into as much depth as these two. Kanji is kid who is terrified of being perceived as weak, and even more scared of not being accepted. Unfortunately (at least according to him), his hobbies tend to lean towards crafts and other "feminine" past-time (again, at l`east in his own mind), which makes him worried about his masculinity. Kanji overcompensates by playing the tough punk, at the expense of both his reputation and his school studies. When he falls for Naoto, whom he believes is a boy, he starts questioning his sexual orientation as well and struggles to understand what it all means. All this: his desire for acceptance, his belief that he has to "be a man" even though nobody is imposing that upon him (except, one might argue, socitial norms), and his relationship with Naoto is done extremely well. So well, in fact, that I considered writing another entire article about both Kanji and Naoto. But I probably won't, so there.

Kanji, mah bro.

Naoto is equally interesting, though not quite as ambiguous as Kanji. She (told you there'd be spoilers) poses as a man because she wants to live up to her family's reputation as excellent detectives, and fears that society (and the police force) wont' accept her for the genius detective she is because of her sex. While her arch ends up being considerably less ambiguous if you max her social link (there has been discussion as to whether or not Naoto is a transsexual based on her Shadow, but her dialogue pretty clearly ends up stating her desire to be a man was mostly based on expectations of her family, not personal belief that being male was her true gender, but take it as you will), it's still a topic rarely covered in games (if ever; again, Kaine).

The most important part about this (and all the characters) is that whatever a character is struggling with isn't what defines them. It would have been very easy to play Kanji off as some gay joke (which Youske sort of leans towards with his homophobia in the early portions of the game, but even Youske has an arc in that regard), but instead he's just another character and his orientation questions are just a layer of depth on top of him. It's masterfully done, and makes all the characters seem considerably more real. Kanji: you da man. Also you're hilarious.

Social links. Totally realistic. 

Lastly, and perhaps the actual biggest plus in Persona 4's favor, is the tight bond you feel with these characters by the time the game ends. You interact with them frequently, with tons of cutscenes happening just throughout the week, many of which have no bearing on the overarching plot save to show the group hanging out and having zany antics. You find out Chie is actually scared of lightning (who would have thought?) and Naoto can't ski (in P4G). These characters have such phenomenal chemistry you can't help but love them, so much so that Atlus knew it, adding more scenes in the Persona 4 Golden remake that, again, have no bearing on the plot but are just entertaining to watch. That, to me, shows the strength of these relationships, when I can watch them go off and do nothing and still be thoroughly entertained.

Based on how much I wrote above, this shouldn't come as a huge surprise, but I'll go out and say it: I love Persona 4's characters. Like...unfairly so. I like them so much that after I beat Persona 4 Golden (which was my fourth time through Persona 4), I wanted to start over and play again just so I could continue to hang out with them. The only other time I've felt this connected to a group of characters in a video game was Nier, and that one only had to make me like four of them; P4 has eight (if I count myself). They have such excellent chemistry, boosted by the fact that Atlas put tons of scenes of you hanging out in that game, get tossed into some absurd and hilarious situations, and present such a fantastic group dynamic it's really hard to top it.

I don't think Persona 3/P3P has a bad party. In fact, I think they do an excellent job in fitting their story roles and making the overarching plot better. But, really, that's the bulk of what they do. They feel more like business associates and less like a group of rag-tag friends. This might be the fault of the age split; in P4 most of the characters are in the same year in school as you (I suppose Rise, Kanji, and Naoto aren't, but they still hang out with you at school), while in P3 both Akihiko and Mitsuru are a year older than you and like...never hang out. Also Mitsuru is cold, man. She just kills fun wherever she goes. But I still like you, Mitsuru, just...you could like...I dunno, unwind every now and then.

So yes, Persona 4's main cast really shines here. They're fun, funny, charming, and above all: hilarious. It makes me wish I had that many friends in real life. :'(

Thanks, Marie. 

Side Characters/Social Links

Oh man, this is already going to be dicey to break down, but I'll do the best I can.

As a preface, Persona 3 was the first Persona game to introduce the idea of Social Links. So, in a way, it was a trial run at these sort of bite-sized character stories that help strengthen both the character development of the protagonist and create a bunch of memorable side characters.

That being said, while I enjoyed a hefty portion of Persona 3's Social Links, a lot felt either mediocre (Yuko, Mamoru) and others completely just fell flat (Kenji, Tonaka [though to be fair, his is funnier in context with P4]). In most instances, the weaker ones tend to focus less on larger issues and more on simple conflicts. Kenji likes older women, so he thinks he gets one and then finds out he didn't. That's the entire social link. Tonaka is a greedy businessman (granted, he's a funny one), who doesn't really learn a lesson but by the end does donate some of his money to charity, if for greedy reasons. They just aren't particularly impactful, and the worse ones (again, Kenji, I cannot stand the guy) are boring and obnoxious.

Yeah, no. Never. Go away. 

That being said, the highs can be so, so good. The Unusual Monk, Dying Young Man, Young Girl (at the park), and Council Treasurer (who looks oddly like my wife...) all have excellent stories. In particular, the Monk and the Dying Young Man spoke to me in ways few games do, with the former overcoming his own preconceived notions about both himself and family, and the latter learning to accept death but make something beautiful out of it before it ended. Which, hey, ties into the theme of this game really well.

The old couple at the bookstore also compliments the theme, with them learning to overcome their son's death both as a means of letting go and moving forward. In fact, a good deal of the social links in Persona 3 don't end happily; they instead result in the characters discovering something about themselves that allows them to take their troubles in stride, realizing you can't win 'em all, but winning isn't necessarily what matters. Which, again, ties into the theme of the game really well.

I'm warning you little girl: depressing things happen to those who know me. 

My only other complaint is that, especially in 3/FES, I often felt the main character was a non-entity in a lot of these stories. With Kenji or Tonaka you feel just along for the ride, as with many others. This ties into the persona of the main character (like...his personality, not the demon he summons from his brain), where he's just kind of a loner, quiet guy, and not necessarily particularly social. It fits the game and the character, but makes him considerably less interesting when interacting with his social links.

This section should technically be shorter, because in P3P a lot of the extracurricular social links were removed and replace with the (arguably superior) social links within your party. Mostly they just trimmed the fat (Kenji is gone, woo hoo! As is the Gourmet King and the Rival Athlete), but they did add two new ones that are worth noting. A new sports girl is added into the, who has to deal with both the team being a bunch of slackers as well as her love life (which is, to be fair, almost identically gender swapped from the Daisuke sports social link in P4). Her's is decent, but what really sets it apart is there are scenes throughout the game of the main character interacting with both her and Rio (a sports club social link in P3 male protag) which really shows a lot of chemistry between these characters and, oddly enough, the males on the sports team. It's a stronger bond, and I'm glad they put it in.

The other new social link might be one of my absolute favorites out of all of them, and it is atrociously heartwrenching. Saori, the Librarian/Heath Committee member, a student who is a year older than everyone because of being transferred between schools so much. Quiet and reserved but dying to be socially accepted, her desperation gets her dragged into a relationship scandal that ends up completely ruining her school life. This is one of the few social links that (like the Dying Young Man) absolutely does not end on a happy note. Yes, she learns to accept herself or whatever, but I was actually upset at how things ended up for her. It didn't pull any punches, it didn't even try to sugar coat it. She was a merciless victim of bullying, and the victim lost. There are some really excellent scenes in this one (if only they could have used this storyline for a more prominent character afflicted with bullies, like Fuuka).

WHY DOES YOUR STORY HAVE TO BE SO SAD :(

While the female protag has less social links outside of the core party that P3 vanilla, I feel she has the best bunch. While a few semi-duds are still there (again, Tonaka, though I still love the guy for being a total sleezeball), the replacements are much better and it just feels like a stronger mix overall. As a bonus, even the repeat ones have been rewritten to better fit her more outgoing personality, which makes her feel more involved in her friends' lives than the original P3 protag. A strong set, overall.

Persona 4 already swept the last category by a landslide, and I have to say: it really puts up a fight here too. As I mentioned in the P3 section, that first game felt a bit like practice, with social links being all over the place in terms of quality. Persona 4, on the other hand, is solid across the board. This mostly has to do with a more unified sense of theme: all the conflicts in the stories are very specifically about encountering a part of yourself that you don't like or is holding you back, learning to recognize it, and then overcome it. The social links blend into the main message of the story very well, and since the formula they're following is basically "How to write a fictional character 101," it makes sense their social link stories work better as character anecdotes.

I actually only recently finally got to see all the social links in P4 (thanks to the extra month in P4G...that stupid tutor kid finally got maxed), and there were very few I felt were duds. I may earn some flack here, but I felt nothing for Yumi in Drama or Ayana in Music. Yumi in particular came off as grating in her random mood shifts, going from ok to emotionally compromised and back to ok like a flip-flopping politician (maybe she applied to the Yukiko school of 'What am I going to do with my life?' switch-a-roo). I guess it's to be expected that the Drama class would have...well...drama, but I don't really feel connected with her.

Check that baggage at the door, Yumi, I ain't got time for this drama. 

The only other one I felt was a bit hamfisted was Sayoko (the Nurse). Her switching between flirty and angry was a bit disconnected, and while I figured out it was part of her character, it made the first half of her story and the second half seem extremely disconnected.

That being said, even the ones I initially thought I'd hate still ended up ending strong. Ai in particular I couldn't stand so much I'd never go out with her, but she ended up having one of the most interesting arcs of all my school friends (though with almost enough drama to give Yumi a run for her money). Even the "lesser" ones like Hisano (Death) had some really good points. Again, following the theme really worked well.

But, again, Persona 4 has a massive, overshadowing trump card: the Dojimas.

...I may need to reconsider. 

Having you stay with your uncle and younger cousin was a brilliant move in terms of both story (since they both tie into the overarching plot very closely), but also in connecting you with the characters. The familial ties already gives them automatic sympathy (especially Nanako), and the tragedy in their pasts that they both share is enough to fuel two emotionally charged, heartbreaking links. Nanako in particular is so damn well done that you can't help but both love her and feel sorry for her, stuck in such a difficult situation at such a young age. I was having emotions towards this video game character I'd never think I'd have before: worried about her because of her being home all day alone, proud of her for putting on a strong face (perhaps even stronger than her father) despite her mother having passed away, glad that she was both a funny and happy-go-lucky kid despite it all, and deep down wishing I could do more for her even though there was no way (and not just because the game wouldn't let you; because in the narrative there really was little you could do. What were you gonna do, bring her mom back to life?). I just...hnngggg NANAKO. And it just makes that last kidnapping all the more painful.

I'll be your new dad. And brother. And mom. Just please, for the love of god, don't be sad Nanako! I can't take it!

Ryotaro Dojima is equally complex, if on a different side of the coin. At first I was genuinely annoyed at the guy, always putting his job before his family, no matter how noble he kept preaching it was to me (I'm sorry you are worried about your dead wife, but your child is alive right here and needs you, dude). However, after burning through his social link, I had a total reversal. He went from being a neglectful parent into a conflicted man who wanted the best for his family but didn't know how to show it. It was clear that his wife had been the emotionally undersatanding one in the family, the soft-spoken, caring parent that knew how to help their daughter. With her gone, Dojima was completely lost, and reacted in the only way he knew how: investing himself in his work with the hope that solving the case would bring peace to Nanako. This is a character with an incredible amount of depth and a good deal of heart besides his prickly exterior. I can't...I just can't even begin to explain how good this guy is, and the fact that he's put into context even better with Nanako's social link only makes it all the better. It's just really, really solid character development.

Honestly, if it had just been Nanako and Dojima, P4 probably still would have won. I still can't get over how well integrated into the story while still not being part of the main party these guys are. Nanako especially because she has more interaction with your friends, but Dojima as the other half of that puzzle. The two together are not only imperative to the story, they're just straight up interesting and compelling characters, and you can't help but get attached to them. The rest of the social links in Persona 4 are standout as well, but those two absolutely steal the show.

That isn't to say Persona 3/Portable falls short. Again, it has some really good highs, but how on earth are you going to beat freaking Nanako?! You can't. It's impossible. Cause every day is great at your Junes, etc. etc. I mean they gave her a freaking catchphrase. P3 just didn't have a chance.

That's it for today! But what are the scores for today's battle?

If we tally up the total from yesterday, we get...

Wait, a tie? Seriously? All that writing and they're tied?! Ugh, what am I doing with my life...

Well, there's still one chance at a tiebreaker. Next time we'll burn through Graphics, Gameplay, and Music for the final throwdown at which of these two games reigns supreme.

Do you have an opinion? Am I completely wrong about everything? Care to discuss character nuances from these two games? By all means, leave a comment and we'll talk. I love talking about these games, and any and all critiques, comments, or just general nonsense is appreciated. Even weird Persona fanart. Maybe. If it's good.

Persona 3 vs Persona 4: Which Game is Better? Part 1: Story

In preparation for Persona 4 Arena: Ultimix and Persona Q coming out soon (I couldn't be more excited for both of these), I figured I'd incite some fanboy rage and do something nobody smart would do: pit two extremely popular games in the same game franchise against each other in a head-to-head to figure out which one is "better." Smart, right? That's like people arguing which Legend of Zelda game is the best (Link to the Past) or which Mario game (RPG, then 2) or which Final Fantasy game (Final Fantasy VI) is the best one. It's all subjective anyway...or is it?

Well, as a preface to this head shooting, social link reversing, Teddie-fur fulled throwdown between two cult classic games, I'll just toss out that I think both games are phenomenal. Even though if you boiled them down to their absolute cores you'd basically have two identical games (get social links, use social links to get personas, use personas to fight monsters, win), both are absolutely worth playing, and if you have any affinity for JRPGs at all you should pick not one, but both up. You also could probably boil them down in completely the same way as I'm doing here and have totally different results based on your own personal opinions. So why compare them?

Because why not. Also my blog needs more hits. What? I pride myself in being totally transparent here.

I'm gettin pumped!

This will probably be huge, but for the sake of some kind of structure I broke the grading credentials down into five major categories: Story, Characters, Graphics, Gameplay, and Music. Each might have subcategories and others might not. They will be split up across four different posts, with Story and Characters getting their own days each, and Graphics, Gameplay, and Music all mushed together followed by a conclusion. I will attempt to be a thorough as possible in my analysis, but keep in mind most everything here is entirely subjective and based on my opinion. However, my goal is to convince you that my opinion is right, so listen close, internet troglodyte!

(I'm sorry I called you a troglodyte that was unkind let's just break this down now shall we)

Oh, and THIS IS YOUR GIANT SPOILER WARNING! I won't ruin endings or who the villain is in Persona 4 or anything, but there will be hints to things that happen later in the plots of these games. It's unavoidable. Deal.

Fanboy pains are all too real. 

Part 1: The Story

Overall Story

I made a comment on my Persona 3 FES review that the story in Persona 3 was, quote, "Not all that original or interesting." After replaying Persona 3 Portable I am totally convinced that I was suffering from mild brain damage when I wrote that review. Persona 3's premise follows a group of high school kids recruited into an organization called SEES, which exists to murder big nasty shadows that appear every month during an hour between midnight and one am where spooky scary shadows come out of their school and try to murder people. Also their school turns into the Tower of Babel except Satan made it.

Yeah, totally run of the mill here.

You know, just a regular story about teens shooting themselves. 

While the story does turn into "teenagers save the world" (which is what I complained about in my earlier review), it manages to subvert it's cliche in a variety of ways. Probably the biggest crazy thing is how high the death count is in this game. I didn't realize until replaying it, but tons of main characters don't make it to the end, often dying in unfair or tragic ways. In addition, most characters have rather traumatic pasts that they have to cope with, which often tie directly into the events of the game. Mitsuru's history, Ken's mom, and Fuuka being a victim of bullying all end up tying into the main story in some crazy ways.

Most importantly, the game has a very clear three act structure, and it feels very tightly knit. While the "kill the big bad, save the whole world!" isn't exactly new, the entire game builds up to this point wonderfully, while still managing a ton of crazy twists and deaths along the way. The game is dark and but doesn't force the issue, letting it's themes and existentialism seep into the plot itself, while still providing a well crafted narrative. It's a complete package, with everything from Igor to Nyx tying together in the end as if it was all made for each other.

The only issue I have with it is that the story is that it doesn't really take off until the start of the second act (basically when you get Shinji as a party member). Up until that point it's a bit on cruise control. After the Shinji plot arch, however, the game kicks right into high gear, never stopping until the end. A minor pacing problem, but one never-the-less.

 While I really enjoyed Persona 4's story, I felt that it really doesn't reach the level of depth that Persona 3 has. This is mostly due to the fact that, at it's core, Persona 4 is a detective story. Somebody is committing murders, and you've gotta find out who. While this makes the story compelling, these types of stories rarely have some sort of large overarching world-saving narrative going on in the background; the main focus is to solve the case and move on. Because of this, the addition of the "True End" boss feels weirdly out of place considering everything you invested in had tied off after solving the mystery.

Another problem with Persona 4 is your detective team sometimes seems to be falling behind on what is going on. Not offensively so, but you'll probably have figured out a lot of who got tossed into the Midnight Channel long before Youske comes to his brilliant deductions. The game also tosses not one, but two rather obvious red herrings that your party eats up before the end, both of which resulting in a "Whew, the case is closed!" and then "Wait, what?" that makes them look kind of slow on the upkeep. In the nicest way possible of course; I love you guys.

Youske: Master Detective. 

That being said, this game isn't lacking for emotional standout moments. The final kidnapping of the game and the scene where it's revealed is arguably one of the tensest, craziest things I've seen in a game, with everybody losing their minds over what happened (and the player in shock that the game would do this to them). After rescuing said undisclosed person, the events following are equally traumatic, with the game taking a rather dark turn out of the blue. This, however, isn't necessarily for strength of the story necessarily, but the strength of the characters it established (which I'll cover later).

As it stands, Persona 4 is an engaging story because it's designed to be. Mysteries are popular because they're easy to follow and are proven to keep readers engaged (look at how well thriller novels sell, and how many are published a year). It's by no means a poor story, but it seems more like a device to both move the gameplay forward and give the characters something to interact over rather than the crux of the game.

That being said, when compared to Persona 3, Persona 4 has a much faster start. It immediately throws you both into the mystery and quickly gives you objectives and explains what has to be done in order to move forward. Because of this, it's first act feels much better paced when compared to it's predecessor's.

Keep in mind, I'm not comparing characters here, I'm comparing the written, underlying story. While Persona 4 is certainly interesting, it doesn't take the risks or make the connections that I feel Persona 3 does. Persona 3 also digs deeper into its lesson on accepting death (which we'll go over more momentarily) and ties it into it's story beats perfectly. Persona 4's core element (learning to accept oneself, finding the truth about a person) isn't tied in quite as tightly with the murder mystery. So, in the end, I think Persona 3 takes this, first act pacing issues aside.

Story of my freaking life. 

Conveyance of Underlying Themes

 Persona 3 is about death. More importantly, it's about learning to accept death, and everything that entails. From the moment the game opens with you shooting yourself in the head to summon your Persona, to the 2/3rds-mark choice as to whether you'd rather continue living in ignorance but inevitably die a horrible death or continue knowing your demise and fight impossible odds against it, this game is heavily ingrained in it's message about dying. Characters have to shoot themselves in the head over and over and over again to summon their personas. Aegis, a robot, questions both whether she is truly alive and, thus, how to cope with her own "death," or if it even exists. The death of a main character rocks the party and makes them realize their own humanity. A freaking ten year old kid attempts suicide in this game, then attempts to murder the person who killed his mom. Ideas about persistence in the face of death and learning to accept that everybody will eventually die, but we have to choose every day to live is a core element of Persona 3, and it executes it near flawlessly.

There's a psychological theory called Terror Management Theory that I really think is interesting (so much so I wrote a paper on it). In a nutshell, everything human beings do and create and react to is in relation to this constant, pervasive knowledge that we will all one day die. Religion, relationships, social structures, creating offspring; all this stuff we do is just reactionary to this dissonance in our heads. We create these things things because thinking about death bothers us. We create buffers to combat it because it's pervasive and, since we are sentient, the realization of our inevitable demises will never, ever go away. Even if we shut it out, the thought of death horrifies us, even if it's dying of old age at the end of a long life. We can't escape it. It's going to happen.

Even your Personas are suicidal. 

Persona 3 so excellently covers not only this type of terror, but also presents ways to overcome it (while still giving you a chance to succumb in a rather important plot choice). The shooting of themselves over and over again, the fighting against impossible odds knowing death is inevitable; all of this is to show that when we learn to embrace it, we no longer fear it. And considering how the final moments of the game play out, the ending is absolutely a perfect capstone on the message the game is trying to convey. It's bittersweet, but it was absolutely necessary for the themes in Persona 3 to persist. In addition, a good deal of the social links in Persona 3 (vs Persona 4) have themes of death and learning to accept death for what it is (particularly the Old Couple and Sick Young Man). I cannot praise this game enough for it's use of symbolism and psychological existentialism.

Persona 4...isn't nearly as dark. People have complained, actually, that it's "too happy" compared to other Persona games, but I don't mind it. Persona 4 seems to really have two main core themes: the idea that we all have a darker side that's a part of us that we don't want to see (but have to inevitably accept if we are to be truthful to ourselves), and the idea of seeking truth (presented in both a personal setting with the characters' individual shadows, and the truth of finding out who the killer is). Of the two of these, the former (accepting oneself for who you are so you can move on to self-improvement) is probably the most prevalent, and similar to Persona 4 this theme not only shows up in the plot but also the social links you find throughout the game.

This idea of self-acceptance is presented extremely well, and arguably the theme across multiple characters is actually stronger here than in Persona 3. Not only does every party member have to overcome and accept their shadow self, but even after the fact their social links have to do with them dealing in the aftermath. The game doesn't pull any punches and say "oh, you accepted this crappy part of you? Happily ever after!" Instead, they are simply made aware of these parts of themselves they don't like, and move to make steps in their lives to adapt accordingly. It's a story about self-improvement and introspection, something I can absolutely get behind.

More like one Youske and one awesome Youske. 

The second portion, the seeking of truth, plays a somewhat lesser role in the story aside from trying to solve the case (though you could argue they're "seeking the truth in themselves," which is a valid point). They try to spin it into the random final boss that just kind of shows up at the very end after the case is solved (the "Seeking of the truth" lead you to realize the game wasn't over even though it clearly tries to get you to avoid the True Ending). Characters bring it up a lot, but honestly it isn't really executed as smoothly. In many ways, the mystery plotline seems distinctly separated from the personal introspective story presented by the characters, or at least not as tightly woven as it could have been.

Still, the themes are still there, are executed well. Truth be told, while they're important, the kind of take a backseat to the character interactions, which is fine but it just shows where more of the focus of this game was.

I'm a sucker for dark, depressing stuff, but that isn't the only reason I think Persona 3 has an edge. First off, as I explained already above, I feel it's underlying themes and message are better woven into the overall narrative. Everything just ties together better, especially considering how you could construe that the events at the end were predetermined from the start, and in that regard innocuous things throughout the game start to find new meaning.

But what I think is more important is Persona 3's story is more relevant on a broader scale. The idea of accepting the inevitability of death and finding the courage to continue living despite that is (as mentioned regarding Terror Management Theory) persistent across every human being from the moment they realize their own mortality until their inevitable passing. This makes the story one that is more "timeless," or at least can be applied to a whole range of ages, genders, etc.

And if Persona 3 couldn't beat the Jesus metaphor in any stronger...

Persona 4's message of introspection and learning to accept oneself, even the worse parts, is arguably just as constant over one's life, but in truth these types of things are usually more commonly explored during adolescence and new adulthood. I, as a 28-year-old married dude who is writing game reviews during his lunch break at work, feel as if I've undergone most of this transformation of learning who I am and coming to accept it. I'm now in the stage where I need to be self-reflective less often but still strive for self-improvement. Deep down I learned who my "true self" was through the "fun" trials of adolescence and my early twenties, and now feel comfortable with myself. That isn't to say everything is gumdrops and buttons, but Persona 4's specific message is less relevant to me than, say, my unavoidable death is.

As such, I found Persona 3's themes to not only be conveyed better in terms of the medium it was presented on, but also felt more powerful and resonated stronger. Of course, I'm also a dude diagnosed with depression so I think about dying like all the time, so I might be a special case. But I still feel that Persona 3 both embraces and conveys it's themes in a much more unified vision than Persona 4 does.

This isn't canon!

Tonal Differences 

As mentioned before, Persona 3 is a dark game. This ties in well to it's predecessors, too, seeing as both Persona and Persona 2 (both parts) are intentionally dark and foreboding. Oddly enough, the style in Persona 3 isn't quite as dark as the previous two (with the characters being more cartoony and the sprites less adult looking), but it still conveys very dark themes.

Persona 3 is about death. I'll just keep saying this until you go insane from hearing it. Characters die, lots of them. The overall color pallet for the world is intentionally bleak and creepy. The Dark Hour is a mix of blood reds, dark greens, and blacks. The menus are a sort of muted blue color, using black as an accent. Even your school feels less bright and cheery (than, say, Persona 4), with the overall world feeling like it's in a haze of dreariness.

#SADBOYS

It fits the game well, tying it's themes into the way it looks nearly perfectly. From the opening scene of Yukari trying to shoot herself in the head and failing, all the way down to it's bleak final boss and shocking ending, Persona 3 knows the message it's trying to convey and isn't pulling any punches. Again, this is a game where a ten-year-old shoots himself in the head over and over to summon his inner self. They aren't kidding around.

While Persona 3 felt like George R. R. Martin writes a high school story, Persona 4 feels like the Scooby Doo after school special. This isn't a bad thing, by any means, but the mood is so dramatically different from P3 (and the rest of the series) it's almost shocking. Gone are drab, dark blues and blacks and reds and are replaced with popping, bumblebee yellows and blacks. Characters are brightly colored and wear brighter clothing (Chie's outfits are a sterling example of this) and just generally feel more alive and happy. And while the game is about solving murders (and does have a few rather dramatic and dark moments), the themes of the game are about overcoming personal problems, which almost every character does handily. The songs are happier and have more pop to them, NPCs you talk to are chipper, and the game is arguably one of the funniest I've ever played. It's in stark contrast with its predecessors, so much so that people actually bag on the game for it (not sure why; not like those other games went anywhere), but as someone once said to me, "This might be the happiest M rated game ever made."

This is a game about sadness and feelings!

This chipper attitude actually does the game some favors, if only for contrast. There is a rather dramatic moment in the game (the final kidnapping) which, had it been in Persona 3, would have been shocking but not as impactful. Putting in in the happy-go-lucky Persona 4, however, makes it all the more dramatic and heartwrenching. It's in this case where it's lulling you into a false sense of security works in the game's favor, and I commend it for it.

It's a TIE?!

It's a copout answer, but it really boils down to what you want in your JRPG story. If you are into dark, bleak stuff because that stuff's your jam (read: you like Game of Thrones or The Last of Us), then Persona 3 is the game for you. It doesn't have the same absurd levels of violence or gore-scars as you might expect from a "dark, adult" game (and I commend it for that; Persona 3 is a rarity among video games where it earns it's M rating for actually being mature, not by adding blood and guts and sex in the hope it'll sell), but it does present a very dark story that will make you think.

Persona 4 is, as I said before, like going on an adventure with all your friends. It has it's ups and its downs, but overall it's a good, fun ride. If you're into hanging out with a lot of funny characters and just having a good time with not as many huge "downer" emotional moments, Persona 4 fits that bill a lot better.

The point being is that I feel both games knew the tone they wanted to convey, and even though the tones are dramatically different, both succeeded equally at what they set out to do. As such, neither really excels over the other in that regard.

Hey, wake up! It's time for the scores!

That's it for today! But what are the scores?

Persona 3 secures an early lead!

But be sure and tune in tomorrow where I blab even more about the characters from these games, top to bottom, nobody is left out! And as always, my reviews for all these games are floating around on the site, should you for some reason want more Persona related nonsense.

Angry at my responses? Want to talk about Terror Management Theory? Care to chat about the storylines of these two games? Please leave a comment and we'll talk about it! I'm always down for some Persona talk, man. Always.